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	<title>Comments on: Marginalizing Math and Science</title>
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	<link>http://www.girldetective.net/?p=1557</link>
	<description>Reading, Writing, Movies and Mothering in Minneapolis, Mostly</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2026 02:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>http://www.girldetective.net/?p=1557&cpage=1#comment-13099</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 02:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I was a math major and am fascinated by the evolution of education.  Nobody is satisfied with it, and yet at the state level it seems nothing positive is happening.  I suppose one positive change has been the number of choices that are now available to parents.  It seems like it's not too big of a stretch to see the virtual elimination of public schools in the next 50 years or so.  I'd argue that there always needs to be tax money going to education (obviously everyone benefits), but why does it have to occur in public school buildings?

One of my recent hair-brained entrepreneurial ideas was to start an elementary school.  It'd meet at somebody's home or in public spaces, relieving the need for expensive school buildings.  Part of this thought stemmed from the architectural folly of schools -- population rises in one part of town; must build big expensive new school; 30 years later population declines and the town gets an unwanted community center.  Seems like a great opportunity to build modular schools that can evolve over decades as the population of youth rises and falls.

On another note:  How do you navigate Arts &#38; Letters Daily?  I read it on occasion, but am always so intimidated by that insanely overwhelming home page.  I was just never that good at reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a math major and am fascinated by the evolution of education.  Nobody is satisfied with it, and yet at the state level it seems nothing positive is happening.  I suppose one positive change has been the number of choices that are now available to parents.  It seems like it&#8217;s not too big of a stretch to see the virtual elimination of public schools in the next 50 years or so.  I&#8217;d argue that there always needs to be tax money going to education (obviously everyone benefits), but why does it have to occur in public school buildings?</p>
<p>One of my recent hair-brained entrepreneurial ideas was to start an elementary school.  It&#8217;d meet at somebody&#8217;s home or in public spaces, relieving the need for expensive school buildings.  Part of this thought stemmed from the architectural folly of schools &#8212; population rises in one part of town; must build big expensive new school; 30 years later population declines and the town gets an unwanted community center.  Seems like a great opportunity to build modular schools that can evolve over decades as the population of youth rises and falls.</p>
<p>On another note:  How do you navigate Arts &amp; Letters Daily?  I read it on occasion, but am always so intimidated by that insanely overwhelming home page.  I was just never that good at reading.</p>
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		<title>By: weirleader</title>
		<link>http://www.girldetective.net/?p=1557&cpage=1#comment-13092</link>
		<dc:creator>weirleader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.girldetective.net/?p=1557#comment-13092</guid>
		<description>you make some good points, Jeff!

sadly, so much emphasis has been placed on testing that a) it is becoming too common to teach to the test as opposed to teaching what you (the teacher) think is necessary and useful, and b) it is increasingly common to try to cram more content into the earlier grades - emphasizing quantity over quality.

I can tell you that frequently I've found myself wishing just for a sophomore student who can add/subtract/multiply/divide accurately and quickly with integers, decimals, and fractions...  perhaps a good grasp of order of operations and graphing would be nice as well.  But the most important piece, and too often it's lacking, is the ability (and willingness) to think, reason, and try new things.  I'd rather have a kid who's willing to think it through and ask questions and work slowly through it than a student who gets it right every time, but who insists on hand-holding through every scrap of new material.

And I don't want to presume anything about your son (Jeff), but I also think that our schools assume too much when they expect all students to progress through second-year algebra to graduate (or thereabouts - I'm not up on the most recent state standards).  Half the students I've ever taught won't need more than basic algebra and geometry, and even then will mainly use arithmetic in day-to-day life.  As we come to realize that our students have a wide variety of learning styles and needs, people need to see that a one-size-fits-all educational system just can't address those needs.

If I could have a math class that was an elective... the things I could do and cover with kids who loved it and WANTED to be there!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you make some good points, Jeff!</p>
<p>sadly, so much emphasis has been placed on testing that a) it is becoming too common to teach to the test as opposed to teaching what you (the teacher) think is necessary and useful, and b) it is increasingly common to try to cram more content into the earlier grades - emphasizing quantity over quality.</p>
<p>I can tell you that frequently I&#8217;ve found myself wishing just for a sophomore student who can add/subtract/multiply/divide accurately and quickly with integers, decimals, and fractions&#8230;  perhaps a good grasp of order of operations and graphing would be nice as well.  But the most important piece, and too often it&#8217;s lacking, is the ability (and willingness) to think, reason, and try new things.  I&#8217;d rather have a kid who&#8217;s willing to think it through and ask questions and work slowly through it than a student who gets it right every time, but who insists on hand-holding through every scrap of new material.</p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t want to presume anything about your son (Jeff), but I also think that our schools assume too much when they expect all students to progress through second-year algebra to graduate (or thereabouts - I&#8217;m not up on the most recent state standards).  Half the students I&#8217;ve ever taught won&#8217;t need more than basic algebra and geometry, and even then will mainly use arithmetic in day-to-day life.  As we come to realize that our students have a wide variety of learning styles and needs, people need to see that a one-size-fits-all educational system just can&#8217;t address those needs.</p>
<p>If I could have a math class that was an elective&#8230; the things I could do and cover with kids who loved it and WANTED to be there!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.girldetective.net/?p=1557&cpage=1#comment-13086</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 00:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As the father of 13 and 17 year-old boys in a state (California) which has emphasized testing of math (and reading) to the expense of just about everything else, I would caution you to pay close attention to what interests your kids and not over-worry about whether they're getting enough of one particular subject.

And frankly, I think the whole "self-esteem" backlash is itself a canard, just as the movement was in the first place.  When my youngest son was in second grade, one night he broke down in tears after his second hour of homework - ALL math and science, I might add - and said that he "must be stupid," because he just wasn't getting it.  

So...don't believe what you read - especially from higher ed folks (and I say that after having worked in higher ed for 13 years) and "experts" who would identify one single way that is the best for ALL kids.  Do what is right for YOUR kids.  And you - and you alone - will best know what that is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the father of 13 and 17 year-old boys in a state (California) which has emphasized testing of math (and reading) to the expense of just about everything else, I would caution you to pay close attention to what interests your kids and not over-worry about whether they&#8217;re getting enough of one particular subject.</p>
<p>And frankly, I think the whole &#8220;self-esteem&#8221; backlash is itself a canard, just as the movement was in the first place.  When my youngest son was in second grade, one night he broke down in tears after his second hour of homework - ALL math and science, I might add - and said that he &#8220;must be stupid,&#8221; because he just wasn&#8217;t getting it.  </p>
<p>So&#8230;don&#8217;t believe what you read - especially from higher ed folks (and I say that after having worked in higher ed for 13 years) and &#8220;experts&#8221; who would identify one single way that is the best for ALL kids.  Do what is right for YOUR kids.  And you - and you alone - will best know what that is.</p>
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		<title>By: weirleader</title>
		<link>http://www.girldetective.net/?p=1557&cpage=1#comment-13052</link>
		<dc:creator>weirleader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As a (now former) math teacher, I have to agree - I don't know what passes for education at lower-than-high-school levels, but learning to think is apparently not involved.

I even had the "privilege" of working with some better-off and more dedicated students these past several years and still the results were mostly depressing.  There's no interest in doing it independently; students have spent 9+ years learning the requisite skill of parroting material back to the teacher and reversing that sad process is daunting.  And (as referred to in the article) I can't tell you how often, upon hearing that I worked as a math teacher, I received the response, "Oh, I was always so &lt;i&gt;terrible&lt;/i&gt; at math!"  It's sort of expected... perhaps a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm sure there are many schools out there that are doing it right - I just didn't happen to be fortunate enough to be affiliated with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a (now former) math teacher, I have to agree - I don&#8217;t know what passes for education at lower-than-high-school levels, but learning to think is apparently not involved.</p>
<p>I even had the &#8220;privilege&#8221; of working with some better-off and more dedicated students these past several years and still the results were mostly depressing.  There&#8217;s no interest in doing it independently; students have spent 9+ years learning the requisite skill of parroting material back to the teacher and reversing that sad process is daunting.  And (as referred to in the article) I can&#8217;t tell you how often, upon hearing that I worked as a math teacher, I received the response, &#8220;Oh, I was always so <i>terrible</i> at math!&#8221;  It&#8217;s sort of expected&#8230; perhaps a self-fulfilling prophecy.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there are many schools out there that are doing it right - I just didn&#8217;t happen to be fortunate enough to be affiliated with them.</p>
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